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Last updated 10-01-10
On August 13 & 14 a man who goes by the name of Papa J. wrote arguing that the "We are of God" in 1 John 4:6 is "the apostle John & his associates." He also argued the "You are of God, little children" of 1 John 4:4 was not included in the "We are of God" of 1 John 4:6. Below was Darwin's last response to him regarding 1 John 4:6 and a little on election (bold not in original).
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: Back at you on 1 John
"We are of God" (1 John 4:6) is found only one other place in 1 John and that is in 1 John 5:19. There it clearly includes all believers.
You wrote, "The “hears us” is a reference to authority, not coming from the “little children.”"
This speaks directly against 1 John 4:4-6, as "us" in the immediate context includes "You" (as I pointed out). Yet, this speaks against not only the truth of 1 John 4:4-6, but that same truth which extends beyond just those verses. It speaks against Jude 3 in which all believers are to contend for the faith. If the truth of 1 John 4:4-6 does not apply to all believers, then this obliterates all believers authority and responsibility to content for the faith. The faith is Genesis to Revelation, and there is one (Ephesians 4:5), not many, as the ecumenical/essentials lie promotes (for that lie, see www.atruechurch.info/savednot.html).
This rejection of 1 John 4:4-6 also discards the authority and responsibility of all believers to cast "down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God" (2 Corinthians 10:3-5). It obliterates, for every believer, fighting this good fight (2 Timothy 4:7) and exposing any and all works of darkness (Ephesians 5:11) which would come against the Truth (John 14:6) of God's Word (Hebrews 4:12-13) on any matter within Genesis to Revelation.
It also denies, for the individual believer, the truth of 2 Timothy 3:16-17. Without the reality of 1 John 4:4-6, he is not complete with simply the Scriptures (as 2 Timothy 3:16-17 declares). He has no authority (1 John 4:6) to proclaim them and discern who is of the spirit of truth and who is of the spirit of error, as he watches others either hear or not hear the Words of God (John 8:47).
It is no different than the truth found in 1 John 2:3-5. Those who heed God's Word ("hears us") know Him. Those who do not heed His commandments ("does not hear us") are liars (1 John 2:4). "By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error" (1 John 4:6).
In other words, the truth of 1 John 4:4-6 is found elsewhere in the Word. I have not included all. It is not just 1 John 4:4-6 that reveals the authority of any believer as they proclaim His truth, as Christ lives in them (Galatians 2:20) and as the anointing teaches them (1 John 2:27).
Finally, this rejection of 1 John 4:4-6 reveals a rejection of the "way of truth" (2 Peter 2:2), for 1 John 4:4-6 displays the way of truth. This "way of truth" is the narrow way (Matthew 7:13-14) in which all believers are complete in Him (Colossians 2:8-10) and believe the same (1 John 4:6; John 8:47; 10:27). Rejecting and not believing in the "way of truth" is rejecting the way of salvation (John 14:6 "Truth"). It is rejecting the narrow way (Matthew 7:13-14). It is rejecting His Word which equals rejecting Christ (Christ is the Word, John 1:1). This kind of behavior results in the lake of fire (Revelation 21:8 "unbelieving"). For more detail on this way of truth, see www.atruechurch.info/unity.html & www.atruechurch.info/marksofacult.html
Regarding election, we believe every last little detail of existence is ordained by God, as it is written, "For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things" (Romans 11:36). He spoke everything into existence before it ever was (Isaiah 46:10). All things are upheld by His Word (Hebrews 1:3) and all consists in His Word (Colossians 1:17). Thus, He has chosen both individuals (e.g. Romans 9:11-13, 16-23; Malachi 1:2-3; Acts 9:15) and nations (e.g. Malachi 1:2-4; Romans 11:26) to either eternal damnation or eternal life, and anything and everything else that exists (Revelation 4:11) and happens (Isaiah 45:7; Amos 3:6; Lamentations 3:37-38) is His "counsel" and His "pleasure" (Isaiah 46:10; Psalm 115:3) spoken into existence "before time began" (2 Timothy 1:9), for the Word has always been (Psalm 119:89; John 1:1).
Papa J. wrote a 4.5 page response to the above. Below is Darwin's response to his rebuttal concerning 1 John 4:6.
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 11:31 AM
Subject: Re: Yap, I'm back to sharpen more iron.
The "we" in 1 John 1:1-5 is obviously limited to those who heard, saw, and physically ("hands") handled the Word of Life (Christ). 1 John 1:6 and following reveals John uses "we" in a broader sense after 1 John 1:1-5. Thus, the whole book is not limited to the narrow "we" of 1 John 1:1-5. 1 John 1:6 and following makes that clear.
With that understood, nowhere in 1 John 4:1-7 (or the greater context thereof) does the writer give any statement that dictates it is limited to the narrow "we" of 1 John 1:1-5 as you claim. That concept you have added to the text (Proverbs 30:5-6). The qualifier for John's statement in 1 John 4:6 is given in the verse itself. The qualifier for who the "We" and "us" are in 1 John 4:6 is given. It is "are of God" (and, as I explained, the "You" of 1 John 4:4 is included in the "are of God" category as explicitly stated). To claim that the "We" is anything more or less than those who "are of God" is a denial of the very text itself that gives its only qualifying statement, and that qualifying statement is, "are of God." John defines who "We" are with "are of God." This is what you deny. You deny 1 John 4:6 applies to those who "are of God," just as it declares. To limit that to claim it only applies to certain ones who "are of God" is unfounded in that section, no, nor does 1 John 1:1-5 mandate that either, since shortly thereafter John broadens the "we" in 1 John 1:6. In order to narrow the "we" in 1 John 4:6 down to only those spoken of in 1 John 1:1-5 the text itself must demand that. On the contrary, what 1 John 4:6 demands, via verses 4-6, is that it is speaking of just what it says, those who "are of God." That includes any and all believers who "are of God" (all true believers "are of God," 1 John 4:4).
You wrote, "Now as said in my earlier reply, heresy through the Gnostics had affected the “little children” and yet another reason why "hears us” can’t refer to those John was writing to!" And from an earlier email you wrote, "We know those John was speaking about were the Gnostic’s . . . ."
This is adding to the word of God (Proverbs 30:5-6). The Gnostics are nowhere to be found in the Biblical text (nowhere in the entire NT). Deceivers are indeed mentioned (1 John 2:26), but to claim (as you have done) those deceivers were Gnositcs is adding to God's word (Proverbs 30:5-6).
Earlier you wrote, "There is a large collection of Gnostic writings from the time John wrote . . . ."
First of all, this is not a fact. You have believed it, because you have believed what you are told (Proverbs 14:15). There is nothing that proves those writings were even around in John's time, nothing, that is, but man's guess work and "scientific" ideas ("what is falsely called knowledge," 1 Timothy 6:20) which prove nothing. Second, even if they were around during John's time, that does not prove "the Gnostics had affected the “little children”." Nor does it prove "John was speaking about . . . the Gnostic’s." You assume all of this upon the text (Proverbs 30:5-6).
It's evident you believe in interpreting the Bible via extra-biblical history. We do not, as Scripture says not to add to His word, and Ecclesiastes 1:11 says,
"There is no remembrance of former things, nor will there be any remembrance of things that are to come by those who will come after."
We take extra-biblical history all with a grain of salt (so to speak). Newspapers are man's history which are only a day old, and they have lies in them already. We put no trust (as you have displayed) in words of men (Jeremiah 17:5) or supposed findings of men. The Biblical text is the only authority, and adding to it (extra-biblical history, writings, etc.) to interpret it is sin (Proverbs 30:5-6) and the way of deceivers (Colossians 2:8). Scripture is all any man of God needs to understand Scripture (2 Timothy 3:16-17; 1 John 2:27). Adding extra-biblical history, writings, etc. denies the completeness of 2 Timothy 3:16-17 (and Colossians 2:8-10), and it denies that Scripture alone makes a man "thoroughly equipped" for "doctrine" (2 Timothy 3:16-17). Doctrine = teaching = a "good work" ("thoroughly equipped for every good work" 2 Timothy 3:16-17). It is a good work to teach, that is, proclaim correct doctrine. This can only be done via Scripture alone for understanding Scripture. In His light we see light (Psalm 36:9). Extra-biblical writings of men are not light (Jeremiah 17:5, 9).
You wrote, "It’s not the authority of you or any believer unless they are rightly dividing the Word of Truth."
You say, "unless." Then you admit it is the authority of any believer who rightly divides the Word of Truth. This is what I said. I wrote (immediately before your above statement),
"1 John 4:4-6 . . . reveals the authority of any believer as they proclaim His truth."
It is indeed qualified by "as they proclaim His truth," as they "rightly divide the Word of Truth."
You wrote, "but again the “hears us” is not referring to your or any body of believers who follow what they believe is the truth, but the truth itself, ‘God’s Word.’"
You fail to realize the church (the true body of believers) is the "pillar and ground of the truth" (1 Timothy 3:15). The church (the true body of believers) is any assembly of believers (not just ours) that faithfully follows the Word of God. Those who oppose the church (the true body of believers) oppose "the pillar and ground of the truth." In other words, those who oppose the church (the true body of believers) oppose the Truth (Jesus Christ, John 14:6). This is the truth of 1 John 4:6.
You wrote, "it appears you are saying the same thing the Church of Christ, and the Jehovah’s Witnesses say about themselves."
They would be correct if they were faithfully believing and preaching the Word of God, because this is indeed what the Bible teaches. There are not many true faiths (denominations). There is only one (Ephesians 4:5). There is only one God (Ephesians 4:6), and He is a Man (Genesis 32:22-30; Exodus 3:15); two Men (John 8:17-18; Daniel 7:9-14); and a City (Psalm 48:12-14; Jeremiahs 33:16). There is only One Spirit (Ephesians 4:4), and He is Seven Spirits (Zechariah 4; Revelation 1:4; 4:5; 5:6). Any other God is false. There are not many ways and truths, there is only One, and that is the truth of the Bible (John 14:6). Jesus Christ is the Truth (John 14:6). He is God. He is Scripture (John 1:1, 14; Galatians 3:8; Hebrews 4:12-13; Revelation 19:13). Faith in Him = faith in Genesis to Revelation. All believers believe the same thing (the Bible). They hear God's word (John 8:47). They all hear His voice and not another (John 10:4-5).
This discussion proves your lost state. You have not found nor accepted this narrow way (Matthew 7:13-14) of truth (2 Peter 2:2). For you wrote,
"John 8:47 & 10:27 . . . is again support for God’s Word coming from our Lord and His Apostles, not a church body made up of men who believe . . . "
God's word comes from "the pillar and ground of the truth" (1 Timothy 3:15), the church, as well, and the "pillar and ground of the truth" is made up "of men who believe" His Word and proclaim it (2 Corinthians 4:13). John 8:47 & 10:27 is "support for God's Word coming from . . . a church body made up of men who believe," for the truth they proclaim came "from our Lord," the Scriptures, God Himself. Every true believer is "of God" and "hears God's Word" (John 8:47). Every true believer follows Him (as in John 10:27). That's why every true believer can say, "We are of God. He who is of God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error" (1 John 4:6).
Gary A. Hand (webmaster of ondoctrine.com) has maintained a web page entitled, "CONVERSATIONS ON CULTIC BEHAVIOR" at www.ondoctrine.com/conversa/3cult001.htm in which are posted emails from Darwin from a few years ago. He contacted us recently with an email address Darwin did not recognize, so Darwin didn't know who he was dealing with at first. Also, for a reason unknown to us, as of 9-11-11 Mr. Hand had not updated the above page to include this most recent discourse. Below is most of the conversation (minus his last email, which was more of the same).
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 4:35 PM
Subject: Wolves in Sheeps clothing
After perusing your web site i was astonished to see that you labeled Chuck Smith, Larry Taylor and Let Us Reason Ministries as basically heretics,15 years ago i sat under Pastor Taylors teachings at Calvary Chapel Bible College,Chuck Smith is my Pastor and ive worked with and been friends with Mike Oppenheimer of Let Us Reason Ministries for over a decade in Hawaii.
As an apologist and teacher of comparative religions i consider myself well versed in historic Christianity and can say without hesitation that your completely wrong about numerous individuals on your site.To make matters worse you claim the same things as well known cult figures,Joseph Smith and Sun Myung Moon,and even David Koresh an "exclusivity to truth" A "Corner on true teachings"etc. thank the Lord that only a few gullible people have been duped by you and my prayer is that you repent of your harmful and destructive teachings.
God wont be mocked " a man reaps what he sows" continue in this course and im positive that God will deal with you personally.
From: Darwin, firstname.lastname@example.org
To: chriscroth, email@example.com
Sent: Wed, Jul 28, 2010 12:53 pm
Subject: Re: Wolves in Sheeps clothing
Amen! God will not be mocked and He indeed will deal with me (Hebrews 4:12-13).
Do you believe I am on my way to eternal toment in hell? If so, would you care to quote what I have written and then quote Scripture to expose (Ephesians 5:11) my error that I might repent?
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: Wolves in Sheeps clothing
Ok Darwin, lets start with this statement made on your website.
"No, I do not believe I am the only one on the planet who knows the truth (Jeremiah 35:19; Romans 11:5). God has his own, however many or few, wherever He may have them (e.g. 1 Kings 19:10, 18). Yet, I do not know, as of this date, any other preacher that is in the truth. Nor have I seen any in history other than those recorded in Scripture (see our report entitled, Believers Of The Past, What Should We Expect To Find?). Not that they have not and do not exist, but I am not familiar with any. But, wherever they may be, they would be in the same way as I am, believing the same things (i.e. God's Word), because there is only one way (John 14:6). Contrary to the lewd teaching (Jude 4) of false Christianity…..
This does not mean perfection in doctrine, but rather, obedience and compliance to the Word of God, particularly when confronted with it (1 Timothy 6:3-5). I have been corrected many times over from people both in and outside our fellowship (Proverbs 6:23)."
Darwin, Its obvious to me and many other beleivers in Christ that have examined your claims that you are severely deceived, you actualy believe that YOU are one of the only true teachers in all of Christianity. God waited 2000 years to reveal his true voice, meanwhile millions and millions of people have perished and went to hell prior to your glorious arrival here on earth.On your site you judge many Godly men then hypocritacly quote this verse in another place.
"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again".
One laughable error you mention on your site concerns Mike Oppenheimer of Let Us Reason Ministries
"Instead he has placed his trust in "ORTHODOX CHRISTIANITY." And how does he define "ORTHODOX CHRISTIANITY"? He describes it as "HISTORIC CHRISTIANITY," which for the most part is Catholic (see our report on the early church fathers). Catholicism has a great deal of false doctrine in it. Historical Protestantism is likewise not without serious error (e.g. Spurgeon). Paul warned against putting our faith in historical traditions
Darwin, in the mid-90,s Oppenheimer and i debated Jerry Mattatics, a renown Cathothic apologist over a two night period at a local Calvary Chapel in Hawaii, I know what Oppenheimer believes about Catholism. Your attacks against other Calvary Pastors need no response from me, others have sank your ship long ago from my brief search of your interactions with them. Darwin,your not original and apparently from the size of your congregation, not very convincing either. however, sadly your in good company
“Outside the true Christian congregation what alternative organization is there? Only Satan’s organization…”Jehovah’s Witnesses ”(Watchtower 3/1/1979 p.24)
Thus, outside the Church of Christ no one can be considered a true believer.'' Iglesia ni Cristo (PASUGO, September/October 1981, p.9)
"one can receive eternal life only through the true church.” True Jesus Church On 5. on the web
“There is one church! There is one God. There is one kingdom of God and this is it!" International Church of Christ (The Great Commission, audioHodge/Hamann/Fulcher/Fields)
“The “household” is God's Family or true church. It's the family that God rules. This is God's inner circle--His very elect...we are God's only true representative on this earth.” The Philadelphia Church of God (The Philadelphia Trumpet, p.1 May 1995
“If you question the group, you are persecuting Jesus." The Potter’s House:
' have personally observed the immaturity demonstrated by you and your adherents when you have engaged in picketing (activities) at Grace Community Church, and that immaturity is also reflected in the doctrines that you have created from you own mind. You have willfully chosen to remove yourself from biblical authority and church discipline, engaging in lawless behavior in relation to the Scripture, because you have established yourself as a law unto yourself, which you believe justifies every desire that results in an action or belief by yourself. Even when shown to be wrong, you are unteachable by your own choice. Sadly, you are in serious and continuing error, also by your own choice, and I have great fear for your soul.
The True Church is the one that Jesus Christ is building and He will build it perfectly according to His plan, with or without you, and what is true is determined by the Word as the revelation of God, and not by the self-proclaimed truth of Darwin Fish.
Since virtually no one that you know or has lived since the apostles, meets the intellectual, doctrinal and spiritual standards that you claim for yourself, it must be lonely at the top. But I am sure that you can keep yourself company by adopting the old saying, "When I speak to myself, I perceive the one speaking to be an intelligent man."
Gary A. Hand
On Doctrine webmaster
Finaly Darwin, i leave you with this, " But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves" 2 Peter 2:1
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 10:31 PM
Subject: Re: Wolves in Sheeps clothing
"The True Church is the one that Jesus Christ is building and He will build it perfectly according to His plan, with or without you, and what is true is determined by the Word as the revelation of God, and not by the self-proclaimed truth of Darwin Fish."
"God waited 2000 years to reveal his true voice"
You show us all here by this statement you have no clue as to what we believe, even though the quote you gave states otherwise.
"you are unteachable by your own choice"
This well precludes any response I might have. Interesting statements though:
First email - "As an apologist and teacher of comparative religions i consider myself well versed in historic Christianity"
Second email - "I perceive the one speaking to be an intelligent man"
From: Tony and Carol Evans [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org]
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 1:00 PM
Subject: Having Really Looked?
I thank you for your response to my email.
Firstly, let me say I am appalled that you still refuse to even have the decency to address me as Mr. Evans or Dear Tony.
Even refusing to sign off in the appropriate manner shows a distinct lack of manners?
If you read your Bible you will see that even the Apostles of Christ addressed their letters to individuals with the names of the saints or churches they were writing to and signed off appropriately. One thing I have observed through my studying of the Word of God is that Jesus Christ was the perfect gentleman, and the scriptures say let all things be done decently and in order!
In response to your last email, where I asked, ” have you really looked.”
You say that you have, however I dispute that as you still hold to your comments that these men of God were “deceivers, and lead people to hell”. You further claim that they preach a false Christ.
The Bible says “ By their fruits you shall know them”. So let’s look at their fruits.
John Wesley and George Whitefield saved England from a revolution of blood that enveloped France at the time, and is widely acknowledged by historians that it was so, simply because they preached the Gospel with thousands swept into the Kingdom of Christ through their preaching.
Charles Haddon Spurgeon and D.L Moody won countless thousands to Christ throughout the latter part of the nineteenth century, and Hudson Taylor through the China Inland Mission opened up the interior of China to the Gospel of Christ, the ramifications of which are still felt today, with millions of Chinese Christians today bearing testimony to that fact.
I don’t know what criteria you judge a man by but the Bible makes it quite clear “ …that he who winneth souls is wise: and they that turn many to righteousness will shine as the stars forever and ever”.*( Prov. 11: 30 and Daniel. 12: 3.)
You also state that I judge you as wicked, I said your comments were wicked, and I still stand by that statement.
As you further stated that these men of God are not your brothers and sisters in Christ, then just who are then your brothers and sisters in Christ?
Are they only those who hold to your particular religious views? Perhaps they are only those who follow your particular Doctrine? Maybe they are only those who attend your church?
But one thing is obvious, you only seem to love those who you deem as worthy to be loved, and not what the Scriptures say, “ If someone says, I love God., and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother who he has seen, how can he love God who he has not see? And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God MUST love his brother also.” 1 John 4: 20-21.
My prayer is that God may open your eyes to behold your “ spirit “ ( Luke 9: 55 ) and that you will love those whom our Father loves too.
Yours in Him,
Ps. You stated in your letters that “ we have looked.” So I take it that I am responding to more than one person?
To: Tony and Carol Evans
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: Having Really Looked?
Please forgive me for offending you by not addressing you in the beginning of my last email. I don't remember ever having anyone be offended by that before, but I certainly do not want to bring unnecessary offense (2 Corinthians 6:3). So, please forgive me.
You mentioned John Wesley and George Whitefield as supposedly leading thousands into the Kingdom of Christ. I know for certain that is a lie, because I believe the Bible, and the Bible says that those who do not abide in the doctrine (teaching) of Christ (Scripture) do not have God (2 John 9). Neither of them were faithful to the Word of God (Hebrews 4:12-13).
For example, John Wesley was an arminian. George Whitefield was a calvinist (both of these are false gospels, www.atruechurch.info/calvinarmin.html). They preached two opposing gospels on five points. In other words, they preached two entirely different gospels. Paul said twice over if anyone "preach any other gospel" "let him be accursed" (Galatians 1:8-9). Wesley and Whitefield were ecumenical and were unlike Paul (Galatians 1:8-9) and did not believe in One way (John 14:6), one faith (Ephesians 4:5), but rather in a broad theological way, the way Jesus said leads to hell (Matthew 7:13-14). Even though they preached two entirely different gospels (diameterically opposed to each other on five points), they still considered each other as in the same faith (Ephesians 4:5). Two different gospels, but the same faith? That is simply a lie. It is not the "way of truth" that is blasphemed (2 Peter 2:2), but rather the way of error (1 John 4:6, "spirit of error").
Wesley preached a Christ who died for everyone. Whitefield preached a false Christ who did not die for everyone (a lie). Wesley preached a false gospel of works (Galatians 1:8-9) in which people choose God on their own free will (contrary to Romans 9:16; Ephesians 2:1-10; etc.). Whitefield preached a false gospel (Galatians 1:8-9) in which people could not fall from grace (contrary to Galatians 5:4; Romans 11:22; etc.). False gospels lead no one to heaven.
You mentioned Spurgeon. Spurgeon had this same problem of ecumenism. He called the arminian gospel "heresy," said it made it so "the Bible is a lie," and if he were to believe the arminian gospel he would "be an infidel at once." He also rejected the arminian God saying,
I do not serve the God of the Arminians at all; I have nothing to do with him, and I do not bow down before the Baal they have set up; he is not my God, nor shall he ever be; I fear him not, nor tremble at his presence. (Sermons Preached and Revised by the Rev. C. H. Spurgeon, sixth series, p. 241)
Yet, Spurgeon called the preacher of the arminian God and gospel, John Wesley, a prime candidate for a position with the twelve apostles (documentation at www.atruechurch.info/spurgeon.html)! Moreover, Spurgeon explicitly said the way to heaven is "broad," the exact opposite of Christ words (Matthew 7:13-14). Spurgeon's way to heaven was so theologically broad it included those who, by his own admission, preached a heretical gospel and a false God. You cannot tell me such a man was anything but of the devil. Well, you can, but you only propagate Satan's work, and attempt to pursuade me to reject God's word for man's. I will never do so (Psalm 119:93) and will never heed such folly. That leads to nowhere but hell. For it makes Christ, the Truth (John 14:6) of no import. I've been on that road of lies before. I will never return to such vomit (2 Peter 2:22).
You asked, "who are then your brothers and sisters in Christ?"
Please see Mark 3:31-35.
"Are they only those who hold to your particular religious views?"
Yes. We only fellowship with those who believe the Bible (1 John 4:6; John 8:47; 10:4-5, 27; etc.).
You asked, "I take it that I am responding to more than one person?'
All correspondence we receive and responses given are forwarded to the rest of our fellowship.
Finally, I will say both in "the terror of the Lord" (2 Corinthians 5:11) and in love for your soul (2 Corinthians 5:14), it's evident you are caught in the prevailing false Christianity that the Bible warns about in 2 Timothy 3:1-5; 4:3-4; 2 Peter 2:2. May God have mercy on you, open your eyes, and save you before it is too late. You are most certainly headed for eternal torment (Revelation 21:8 "unbelieving"). You have not yet found "the way of truth" (2 Peter 2:2; John 14:6), even though you no doubt think you have; but you have not received "the love of the truth" that you "might be saved" (2 Thessalonians 2:10).
From: Karen Munroe
Sent: Friday, Sepember 24, 2010 11:21 AM
Subject: InquiriesDear Darwin,
I am curious to know if you are aware of the Restored Church of God headed up by Pastor General David Poke. Pastor Poke was mentored if you will by Herbert Armstrong of the former World Church of God.
The other question is how you come to the decision Christ was crucified and buried on a Thursday? Three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Sundown to sundown constitutes 1 complete day. Jesus was buried between 3pm and 6pm; he was to rise from his tomb exactly 3 days/3 nights later at the exact time he was put in the tomb.At the very best your calculation would be Thursday night, Friday night, and Saturday DAY unless you believe he rose on the first day of the week. That would be 3 nights/2 days.
Do you not understand God's commandments were in place at the very beginning and that they are perpetual? We are no longer under the law (punishment of death) but we are still to obey the law of God - all ten commandments.
I respect your right to express your beliefs. You almost had me there for a while until the Sabbath issue. Jesus said clearly, "I am Lord of the Sabbath."
Karen in Maine
To: Karen Munroe
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: Inquiries
"Jesus was buried between 3pm and 6pm"
The Bible nowhere teaches that. You have added that concept to Scripture. It indeed reveals it was late in the day when he was put in the tomb, but your specifics go beyond what is written (Proverbs 30:5-6; 1 Corinthians 4:6).
"at the exact time he was put in the tomb"
Scripture gives no such exacting concept. Here, again, you have added to God's Word, and if you continue, you will be proven a liar, as Proverbs 30:5-6 warns.
"Do you not understand God's commandments were in place at the very beginning and that they are perpetual? We are no longer under the law (punishment of death) but we are still to obey the law of God - all ten commandments."
You fail to understand that the new covenant is "not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt" (Hebrews 8:9; Jeremiah 31:32).
Moreover, yes, I am aware of that false church and that false teacher. He is one who follows fables as 2 Timothy 4:3-4 says people like him (them) will do.
For example, in the article, "Who were the Nicolaitanes, referenced in Revelation 2:6, 15?" (www.thercg.org/questions/p062.a.html) they claim "Nicolas is merely the Greek word for Nimrod." That's only true if you follow the fable they are about to tell you. Actually, the Greek word for Nimrod is Νεβρωδ (nebrôd) "Nebrod." You can see that by looking in the Septuagent (LXX) in Genesis 10:8-9; 1 Chronicles 1:10; Micah 5:6.
Immediately after the above quote they write,
Within two centuries after the Flood, Nimrod had conquered the people and founded man-made civilization.
While alive, Nimrod commanded his subjects to worship him in place of God. Even after his death, his followers continued to worship him as a divine heroic leader. He was called “Baal.”
This is only true if you follow fables. The Bible teaches no such thing, but they think nothing of adding to God's Word (Proverbs 30:5-6). For more on this kind of fable see our article at www.atruechurch.info/babylonreligion.html.
Another example of adding to God's Word, denying God's word, and following fables (2 Timothy 4:4) can be found at "What does the Bible say concerning the devil's final fate?" (www.thercg.org/questions/p040.a.html). They write,
The lake of fire will be quenched at the time of the establishment of the new heavens and the new earth (Rev. 21:1).
Scripture never says it will be quenched. It says just the opposite. Jesus said of hell (the lake of fire) "where the fire is not quenched" (e.g. Mark 9:44; etc.). The Bible even mentions the lake of fire after the creation of the new heavens and the new earth, after saying "There shall be no more death" (Revelation 21:4). It reveals the "unbelieving" etc. are in that context yet in the lake of fire. See Revelation 21:8.
Finally, this is where you are going if you continue in such falsehood. You will be cast there as "unbelieving" because you followed fables and doctrines of men (Matthew 15:8-9), rather than believing what God says (James 1:21).
From: Karen Munroe
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 2:59 PM
It is no wonder people turn away from [religion] and God. There is always some fruit cake out there telling them they are going to hell for believing such and such. Like who died and made you God?
I asked a few simple and honest questions and was very respectful. I wasn't quoting the bible but paraphrasing so I could ask a question. It's websites and people like you that God will punish.
Go to hell!
From: Sean Langdon
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 6:12 AM
Yes that’s right I serve the Jesus ( the one and only Jesus) of the Bible, hope you do If you do a thorough search you will see that every time that someone was filled with the Holy Ghost, they spoke in another tongue, Praise the Lord I have that wonderful experience of a new tongue I pray you do too!!
To: Sean Langdon
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 9:20 AM
I searched, and it doesn't say they spoke in tongues in Acts 2:38-42; 4:8, 31; 7:55; 8:14-17; 9:17-19; 11:24; 13:9-11, 52.
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 10:45 PM
Good new articles and blog. I went to that website as well. David C. Pack slanders Jacob by calling polygamy "a sin like any other from which Jacob had to turn" (http://www.thercg.org/articles/ttap.html). He also says, "God does not mock people" (http://www.thercg.org/books/dtbtp.html). God says that He does (Proverbs 1:25-27; Psalm 59:7-8). He says, "Scripture does not present the Father and Christ as being equal" (http://www.thercg.org/books/ttigtio.html#ch6). Christ "said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God" (John 5:18). This is certainly what Scripture presents.
David C. Pack is also an antichrist. He says,
"When Christ, the God of the Old Testament, came to earth, He gave up His glorified spiritual body to become a flesh-and-blood human being (John 1:14). However, until that time, God was not flesh." (http://www.thercg.org/books/ttigtio.html#ch9)
He deny's that Christ was in the flesh at some point (2 John 7).
Also, speaking on 1 Samuel 28 and what the medium saw, the site says,
"She saw a demon attempting to appear as Samuel" (http://www.thercg.org/questions/p143.a.html)
According to this site, Samuel wasn't the one who the woman saw. This deny's what the Word of God says, for the narritive speaking says,
"Now Samuel said to Saul..." (1 Samuel 28:15)
The verse does not say,
"Now a demon attempting to appear as Samuel said to Saul..."
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 11:41 PM
Subject: Coptic Pope quote, forbidding marriage
I know you expose the doctrine of demons of the Coptic Church with the "Both the Pope and the Bishops must be monks" quote on your Coptic page. I am wondering if you want to add a quote I found from a book by their same Pope to your Coptic article. In this book, it exposes explicitly that the Coptic Church forbids marriage, not only for their Popes and Bishops, but just for couples in general!
In this book called "Many Years With People’s Questions Part IV" (available @ http://www.saint-mary.net/books/questionsv4.pdf), the Pope answers questions regarding dogma and rituals. Under question number 48 ("THE SUNDAY PRECEDING THE LENT AND GETTING MARRIED"), it says the following:
Is it possible to get married on the Sunday preceding.lent?
The Patriarchate issued an instruction some years ago to all its churches to forbid marriages on the Sunday before Lent and the reason for this is that it would be likely to cause a breaking of the fast.
One could hardly expect the bridal couple to fast, either on the morning of their marriage, from the point of view of taking no food, or from the abstention from marital relations for 55 days straight after the marriage (this being the period of the Great Fast)." (Many Years With People’s Questions Part IV, by Pope Shenouda III, p. 131, bold in original)
Also, on the next page it says,
"If we were to allow couples to get married on the Sunday before Lent, we would be implicitly permitting them to break the fast, which would not be right.
This same situation would apply to any period of fasting, which is why it is necessary for marriage to be prohibited at such times." (ibid., p. 132, bold in original)
If this doesn't mirror 1 Timothy 4:3, what does! They forbid marriage for the very reason of not interfering with the fast (abstaining from foods) that they command (1 Timothy 4:3). He says that this same situation (i.e. forbidding marriage for couples) "would apply to any period of fasting". Considering that the Copts fast for over 210 days in the year, that is a lot of time of forbidding marriage! He says that it is necassary for marriage to be prohibeted at such times. In other words, it is necessary for marriage to be forbidden. That is "forbidding to marry" (1 Timothy 4:3) for sure.
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 12:22 PM
Subject: Re: Coptic Pope quote, forbidding marriage
Good quotes. Interesting book. There is a fair amount more in there which could be exposed (e.g. p. 17, 68, 78-79, 93-96, 114-115, 120, 133, 135, 144-145) if I ever get motivated to update that report.
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: Coptic Pope quote, forbidding marriage
Amen. Yet there is even more than that. The Pope says the Holy Spirit is seven archangels, and thinks that Michael is the commander of Joshua 5:14 (The Angels, by Pope Shenouda III, p. 7; available @ http://www.saint-mary.net/books/The%20Angels.pdf).
Speaking on Hebrews 7:3 the Pope says, "We should not take these words literally, otherwise Melchizedek would be God" and "Even literally we cannot say that he is like the Son of God" (Many Years With People's Questions Part 1 Biblical Questions, by Pope Shenouda III, p. 88; http://www.saint-mary.net/books/questionsv1.pdf).
He calls abstaining from foods "a rite" and "commandment" (The Spirituality of Fasting, by Pope Shenouda III, p. 55; http://www.saint-mary.net/books/The%20Spirituality%20of%20Fasting.pdf)
In a prayer to "Mary" they call her "the true vine" (p. 44, http://www.saint-mary.net/books/agpia/Agpia.pdf). Christ said, "I am the true vine" (John 15:1). They also say that by trusting in "Mary" they will be saved (p. 108, ibid.). They say she is the bastion of their salvation and their "hope" (p. 127, ibid.).