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Last updated: 11-11-04

From: Tony Kawaguchi
To: feedback@atruechurch.info
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 4:32 PM
Subject: a true church?

Darwin,

I read a bunch of your website and I saw that there was some good teaching. However, I found that you believe that God is 7 spirits, based on the verses in Revelation and Zechariah that contain the word "seven."

The Book of Revelation is full of the number 7. It appears 55 times. In 1:20 the 7 stars and lampstands are angels and churches:

Rev 1:20 As for the mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand, and the seven golden lampstands, the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.

In 3:1 Jesus is speaking to John about these "spirits" and "stars". Jesus says of Himself, that He HAS seven spirits, which means he owns or posesses them. God is not 7 seven spirits as you say, He posesses the 7 spirits. Jesus doesn't say "the words of him who IS seven spirits." He says "the words of Him who HAS seven spirits". see:

Rev 3:1 "And to the angel of the church in Sardis write: 'The words of him who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars.

Revelation 4:5 says that the seven spirits of God are "seven torches of fire." So according to your teaching, is God 7 spirits, or is he 7 torches? Either way, the 7 spirits of God stand BEFORE the throne of God, they are not on it, as the Son is (Rev 3:21.)

See: Rev 4:5 From the throne came flashes of lightning, and rumblings and peals of thunder, and before the throne were burning seven torches of fire, which are the seven spirits of God,

So who are the 7 spirits? Look: Rev 8:2 Then I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them.

again:

Rev 15:7 And one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls full of the wrath of God who lives forever and ever,

and one last about the 7 ANGELS:

Rev 16:1 Then I heard a loud voice from the temple telling the seven angels, "Go and pour out on the earth the seven bowls of the wrath of God."

You know that cults can start out with good motives. However, they always end up distorting their view of God. Sadly, over time your understanding of the Bible has gotten warped (2 Pet 3:16), and I implore you to repent (acts 8:22). As you have condemned so many teachers to hell because they teach a few things that you think are wrong, then you yourself are condemned to hell because of this false teaching (matt 7:2).

You have denied your own Master by saying that he is 7 spirits and you will be destroyed: 2Pe 2:1 "But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction."

ALSO: your interpretation of Zec 4 is horrible manipulation of the text. Clearly the 7 "eyes of the LORD" that are in verse 10 are the seven angels referred to in Zec 1:10: "And the man who was standing among the myrtle trees answered and said, "These are those whom the LORD has sent to patrol the earth. 11 So they answered the angel of the LORD who was standing among the myrtle trees and said, "We have patrolled the earth, and behold, all the earth is peaceful and quiet."

You have become so deceived that you think the Gospel has not saved anyone for nearly 1950 years. Is the Gospel that weak? (Rom 1:16.) Even if there were no good teachers, we don't need teachers, we just need the Scriptures (1John 2:27.) You don't believe in the power of God or the Gospel, because you think the Gospel saved no one, or hardly anyone, for 1950 years! And even today, the gospel can only save your tiny group?!?!! the Gospel is powerful to save far more than your little group. (1 Cor 1:18)

But according to Rom 16:17-18, I must turn away from you, because you "cause dissensions and hindrances contrary to the teaching which you learned. For such men are slaves, not of our Lord Christ but of their own appetites; and by their smooth and flattering speech they deceive the hearts of the unsuspecting. "

Darwin, I urge you to repent. You seem to want to be in the truth, but you are full of hate for Christians, by which you fulfill Jesus' words in Luke 6:22. You have already been warned by many many people. I only wrote this email because I felt compassion for your soul, and now I must avoid you unless you repent of your false teaching. (Titus 3:10)

I hope you will repent.
In Christ the Savior
Tony

From: darwin@atruechurch.info
To: Tony Kawaguchi
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: a true church?

Thank you for the email.

You wrote, "In 3:1 Jesus is speaking to John about these 'spirits' and 'stars'. Jesus says of Himself, that He HAS seven spirits, which means he owns or posesses them. God is not 7 seven spirits as you say, He posesses the 7 spirits."

Wow! Listen to yourself! You just admitted in these words that the seven spirits are God. If Jesus "has the seven spirits" then that means they are a part of God, i. e. God. Just as each man has a spirit, that spirit is part of that man, who he is, as is his soul and his body is part of who he is (1 Thessalonians 5:23), as God is spirit (John 4:24), and Jesus is God (John 1:1), thus Jesus is spirit.

Also, the problem with your conclusion is, nowhere does Scripture conclude as you do. If we were to follow your unbiblical logic (Proverbs 3:5-6), then we would be forced to erroneously conclude that Jesus is not the Spirit of truth. He simply has the Spirit of truth, but He is not the Spirit of truth. Yet, in John 14:18, Jesus, speaking in the context of sending the Spirit of truth, said,

I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Being that Christ is Truth incarnate (John 14:6), it should be apparent He is the spirit of truth.

You asked, "Revelation 4:5 says that the seven spirits of God are 'seven torches of fire.' So according to your teaching, is God 7 spirits, or is he 7 torches?"

The text itself explains the 7 torches to be "the seven spirits of God." But, we do believe our God is a literal consuming fire (Hebrews 12:29; Genesis 19:24; Exodus 3:2; 19:18; 24:17; Leviticus 10:2; Numbers 9:15-16; 11:1-3; 16:35; Deuteronomy 4:11-15, 23-24, 33-36; 5:4-5, 22-29; 9:3; 2 Kings 1:9-15; Psalm 11:6; 18:8, 12-13; 50:3; 68:1-2; 83:13-18; 97:3; Isaiah 30:27-33; 31:9; 33:10-16; 66:15-16; Jeremiah 4:4; 17:4; 23:29; Ezekiel 1:27-28; 8:1-3; Daniel 7:9-10; Micah 1:3-4)

You wrote, "Either way, the 7 spirits of God stand BEFORE the throne of God, they are not on it, as the Son is (Rev 3:21.)"

The Son is also found before the throne (Daniel 7:13), does that therefore make Him not God? Again, if we were to follow your unbiblical logic, we might be tempted to conclude such an erroneous thing, as you have fallen to such a temptation in regards to the seven spirits.

Apparently, with the Scriptures you gave about seven angels, you apparently are telling me the seven spirits are seven angels? If so, then John wrote in Revelation 1:4,

Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come [i.e. God], and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne [i.e. according to you, seven angels], and from Jesus Christ [i.e. God].

So, according to your interpretation, seven angels are placed right smack in the middle of God and God. According to your interpretation, John declares grace and peace from God, from seven angels, and then from God again. This unbiblical interpretation of yours places seven angels right in the middle of the Godhead!

You will never find "grace and peace" in Scripture, as John writes, from anyone but from God Himself (e.g. Romans 1:7; 1 Corinthians 1:3; 2 Corinthians 1:2; etc.). Revelation 1:4 reveals the seven spirits to be God Himself.

You wrote, "Clearly the 7 'eyes of the LORD' that are in verse 10 are the seven angels referred to in Zec 1:10:"

Wow! You say "Clearly" when the text does not even call them angels. You have added to the the word of God (Proverbs 30:5-6).

You wrote, "You have become so deceived that you think the Gospel has not saved anyone for nearly 1950 years."

You are the deceived one. We don't believe what you claim we believe (www.atruechurch.info/believers.html).

You wrote, "And even today, the gospel can only save your tiny group?!?!!"

We don't believe that either (see our FAQ or Who Is Darwin Fish?).

You wrote, "But according to Rom 16:17-18, I must turn away from you"

It is those who teach contrary to the doctrine of the word of God that are to be turned away from, and you have proven no such thing. In fact, you are the one who is promoting a lie (the seven spirits are not God), and, if you do not repent, you will be condemned for it (Matthew 12:36-37).

Tony, I urge you to repent, before it's too late (Proverbs 1:20-27). You do not know the God of the Bible, who is (with the Father and the Son) the seven Spirits of God.

I hope you will repent.
In Christ, the real Savior, the One who both kills and makes alive, and yes indeed, the one who has the seven Spirits of God,

Darwin
www.atruechurch.info/savednot.html

From: Tony Kawaguchi
To: darwin@atruechurch.info
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: a true church?

Darwin,

Your interpretation of Scripture is from demons (1Tim 4:1-2). Your understanding of God has completely changed from the one God to a totally false God. While you claim that you think the gospel could save more than your little tiny group, you openly claim that you are the only true teacher in the world. That would mean that you will receive the strictest judgement of all people in the world (James 2).

You tell people to abandon their friends instead of being in the world as 1 John tells us to be. You make men beat their wives and children, sell their homes to move to Lake Hughes, and then turn them into hateful, unhappy cultists who think only 35 people on earth are saved.

According to your own standards, you are doomed to hell Darwin. You are "the blind leading the blind", in "whose case the god of this world has blinded the mind of the unbelieving."

You have called God a man who has 7 spirits. You have totally abandoned the teaching of the Bible and your First Love (Rev 2:3-4). In no place in the Bible does the Holy Spirit appear in the plural form. The 7 spirits in revelation are plural, not singular. They do not have the singular definite article indicating THE HOLY SPIRIT, but are rather just spirits.

In my previous email, I did not say that God IS seven spirits. No, you have once again taken something totally out of context. God HAS them, he POSESSES them, like I might posess a dog or a cat. He ownes the 7 spirits. Jesus doesn't have 7 spirits. look:

"And Jesus, crying out with a loud voice, said, "Father, INTO YOUR HANDS I COMMIT MY SPIRIT." He has 1 spirit. (Luke 23:46) So if Jesus has 1 Spirit, and you believe God has 7 spirits, does God have 10 spirits total? According to your demonic interpretation, God is spirit, and there is the Holy Spirit, and Jesus has a Spirit, and there are 7 others who stand before God's throne, totally separate from Jesus, how many spirits is God? Your logic is totally ludicrous, but your conscience is so seared that you have no idea how false your teaching is (1 Tim 4:1-3)

"Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God". 1 Cor 2:11 Does the Holy Spirit know God's thoughts, but the other 6 don't know His thoughts?

And Is God a man as you say? Num 23:19 "God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent" Jer 33:12""Behold, let me tell you, you are not right in this, For God is greater than man. "

Darwin, I bet when you started at Grace Community (I don't go there) you were trying to obey the truth and follow God. But now you have become a false teacher, creaping into households and decieving with your ludicrous ideas about God being a man, having 7 spirits, wanting people to masturbate, have many wives, etc etc. Return to your first love! (rev 2:4)

repent! Stop calling everyone a false teacher when YOU are the WORST of ALL false teachers, by denying the very identity of God Himself! You have done exactly what the Mormons have done by making God into a man!

2 Peter 2:1 - "there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves." That verse describes YOU!

I beg you to repent of your false teaching! Disband your false church and return to The True Church of Jesus Christ. I have fulfilled my duty. I have warned you twice, and now I must have nothing to do with you. Titus 3:10.

I am praying for you, that God will grant you repentance. 2 Tim 2:25.

Tony

From: darwin@atruechurch.info
To: Tony Kawaguchi
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 11:32 PM
Subject: Re: a true church?

You wrote, "You make men beat their wives and children, sell their homes to move to Lake Hughes . . ."

You obviously listen to lies, and retell them. You will be judged for it. These are lies, and the day of judgment, an awesome day I am looking forward to, will make it known.

Last time you wrote, "Jesus says of Himself, that He HAS seven spirits. . . ." This time you wrote, "Jesus doesn't have 7 spirits."

Make up your mind. So, does He or doesn't He?

I too have warned you twice. See you on the day of judgment.

From: msarmendariz@atruechurch.info
To: kawaguchi_tony@yahoo.com
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 12:22 AM

Tony,

If Darwin is a false teacher, then he cannot repent according to 2 Peter 2 and Jude, right? You seem to be able to divide the word so well that you must understand that false teachers of the 2 Peter 2 and Jude variety cannot repent as they were "made to be caught and destroyed", and "long ago marked out for this condemnation". If you understand this, then stop telling Darwin to repent because if you are right he cannot repent.

But, of course, you are not right. In fact, you are a serious fool. You slander Darwin and others by simply repeating the lies you hear about a true church. Like Darwin, I, too, look forward to the day that God cuts off all flattering lips and sends to hell slanderers like yourself. But, like Darwin, and God Almighty, I hope that you repent because I know the eternal torment that awaits your soul for rejecting the Word of God in favor of your own understanding, in direct disobedience to Proverbs 3:5.

John McArthur, on the other hand, is truly a liar. He is truly a false teacher who I know cannot repent. He teaches things (which we have plainly laid out for you to see with your own eyes) that are completely contrary to the Word of God. Your invitation to "come back to the true church of Jesus Christ", in the context of Grace Community Church, makes me want to vomit. It is, in reality, an invitation to return to the vomit which God delivered us from. No thanks. I will leave that to the dogs. You may continue eating vomit, but I will follow the Scriptures, Jesus Christ, the Bible, the Word of God, the Alpha and the Omega, who has and is Seven Spirits, and who hates you because you do not believe what He says.

Even now, as I reread your ludicrous remarks that we "want people to masturbate", I long for the Judgment. God will expose the foolishness of a person such as yourself, who reads our report (or maybe doesn't read it), then states such a stupid thing. And regarding you "fulfilling your duty", yes, you have been a good minister of Satan today, attempting to divert the attention of the saints off of the Word of God and onto the understanding of wicked men. But, with the rest of the saints, I say "Let God be found true, and every man a liar."

Come Lord Jesus,

Matt Armendariz

From: Tony Kawaguchi
To: David Oldham ; msarmendariz@atruechurch.info
Cc: "a true church"
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 1:33 AM

Wow, your email says it all.
Here are some statements which you said. Clearly the words of a man who has never experienced the true grace and love of God.
You said:
"Like Darwin, I, too, look forward to the day that God cuts off all flattering lips and sends to hell slanderers like yourself."
"I know the eternal torment that awaits your soul"
"John McArthur, on the other hand, is truly a liar."
"You may continue eating vomit"
"the Alpha and the Omega ...who hates you because you do not believe what He says."
"I long for the Judgment. God will expose the foolishness of a person such as yourself"
"you have been a good minister of Satan today"

These all sound like the words of an angry, guilty ridden, unforgiven cult member. In fact they sound almost exactly like the people in David Koresh's group. They sound like a person who would beat their children and their wife enough to leave bruises on them. They sound like a person who had to mail all their pictures of friends and family back to them, and spend holidays without their families.

In contrast, I do not hate you, I do not hope you go to hell, I do not want you to be judged as a fool, tormented, or for you to be a minister of Satan.

I want you to experience the grace and forgiveness that God has purchased through His Son. I feel only pity for you, that you have followed such a strange cult.

May the Triune God be merciful to you. May He pour out love and grace and forgiveness upon you. May His overwhelming mercy be shown to you.

Tony

From: darwin@atruechurch.info
To: Tony Kawaguchi
Cc: "a true church"
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 3:04 PM

Wow, Tony's email says it all. How utterly wicked he is, and how he is against godliness, godly men, and the word of God.

The statements he found fault in all reflect godly men's perspective and the perspective of the word of God.

1. "Like Darwin, I, too, look forward to the day that God cuts off all flattering lips and sends to hell slanderers like yourself."

May the Lord cut off all flattering lips (Psalm 12:3)

Oh, that you would slay the wicked, O God! (Psalm 139:19)

He shall take them away as with a whirlwind, as in His living and burning wrath. The righteous shall rejoice when he sees the vengeance; he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked. (Psalm 58:10)

And shall God not avenge His own elect who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them? I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. (Luke 18:7-8)

2. "I know the eternal torment that awaits your soul"

Matt believes the word of God.

The cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death. (Revelation 21:8)

Tony is unbelieving.

3. "John McArthur, on the other hand, is truly a liar."

He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (1 John 2:4; commandments = His word, see 1 John 2:5)

MacArthur does not keep His commandments. For example, MacArthur says, "God does not make men sinful" (Mac Study Bible, p. 1711).

God says,

The Lord has made all for Himself, yes, even the wicked for the day of doom. (Proverbs 16:4)

. . . by one man's disobedience many were made sinners . . . (Romans 5:19)

. . . vessels of wrath prepared for destruction . . . (Romans 9:21-22)

For more on Mac, see www.atruechurch.info/macarthur.html

4. "You may continue eating vomit"

As a dog returns to his own vomit, so a fool repeats his folly. (Proverbs 26:11; see also 2 Peter 2:22)

Tony is repeating his folly via these emails and his false Christianity.

5. "the Alpha and the Omega ...who hates you because you do not believe what He says."

You hate all workers of iniquity. (Psalm 5:5)

The wicked . . . His soul hates. (Psalm 11:5; see also Leviticus 20:23)

The Lord hates . . . a false witness who speaks lies (Proverbs 6:19)

Tony speaks lies as he is a false witness about God and about "a true church."

6. "I long for the Judgment. God will expose the foolishness of a person such as yourself"

But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned. (Matthew 12:36-37)

If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be accursed. O Lord come! (1 Corinthians 16:22)

7. "you have been a good minister of Satan today"

Tony has spoken lies, even on matters he has no way of knowing whether they are true or not, yet he speaks them nonetheless (e.g. beating wives and children, etc.). Speaking of Satan, Scripture says,

When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. (John 8:44)

his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. (2 Corinthians 11:15)

Tony states: "These all sound like the words of an angry, guilty ridden, unforgiven cult member."

So, according to Tony, the words of God "all sound like the words of an angry, guilty ridden, unforgiven cult member."

This reveals how utterly devoid of the Truth Tony is. He does not know Jesus Christ (John 14:6)

Tony claims love toward us, but what he has displayed is hate, as he slanders us, calls us demonic (without any Biblical foundation, like Christ was called, e.g. John 8:48), and assumes strange evil upon us (e.g. "had to mail all their pictures of friends and family back to them").

On the other hand, unlike Tony who lies and says, "I do not hate you" when the Bible says he does (Proverbs 29:27), we admit that we hate him, but we have also loved him and given him the truth (Proverbs 27:5-6); but he has done nothing but reject it.

From: Darren
To: darwin@atruechurch.info
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 4:44 PM
Subject: Weblog

Hello :-)

I was reading your weblog, and I came across this section:

"These all sound like the words of an angry, guilty ridden, unforgiven cult member. In fact they sound almost exactly like the people in David Koresh's group. They sound like a person who would beat their children and their wife enough to leave bruises on them. They sound like a person who had to mail all their pictures of friends and family back to them, and spend holidays without their families."

He's slandering you, and judging you by the standards of corrupt men .... all in one paragraph! The writer of the above paragraph is a liar! How can someone base their judgement on "appearances", and claim to be in the truth? If someone says that their neighbor "looks like a wife-beater" ...... that would probably put them into judgment!

David Koresh's satanic group were totally different to your church. They used ungodly violence and believed in nonsense ... you are of Christ, and you believe in the truth :-)

Bye

Darren

From: darwin@atruechurch.info
To: Darren
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: Weblog

Thanks for the encouraging words. What you said about his slander should be obvious to all, but sadly it is not.

From: "Alex Lee" goodsushi@hotmail.com
To: feedback@atruechurch.info
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 2:32 PM
Subject: Your web blog

Hi Darwin, just wondering why you have not posted all of Tony's emails on your web blog? There seemed to be some interesting discussions going on there. Also, if you claim to be the only ones correctly following Christ since His day should you not call yourselves "The True Church" not A True Church?

From: darwin@atruechurch.info
To: "Alex Lee" goodsushi@hotmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: Your web blog

Thank you for the email.

You asked, "just wondering why you have not posted all of Tony's emails on your web blog?"

How did you know there were more? Did Tony prod you to ask this?

We have not posted them all because he is a nasty man, a liar, and one the wisdom of God tells us not to spend time on (Proverbs 9:7-8; 14:7; Matthew 7:6). What we do have posted well represents his wickedness and our rebuttal of it (2 Corinthians 10:3-5).

You asked, "Also, if you claim to be the only ones correctly following Christ since His day should you not call yourselves "The True Church" not A True Church?"

We don't "claim to be the only ones correctly following Christ since His day." See our FAQ. It sounds like you've been taken in by some of Tony's (and/or other's) lies, or at least, this one.

May the Lord save you from those who speak perverse things (www.atruechurch.info/savednot.html).

From: Paul
To: feedback@atruechurch.info
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 2:44 AM
Subject: Nuttin much

Having been forgiven much you must also love much, which is understood.

His appearing, how wonderful. His name is wonderful. He is altogether beautiful. The beloved of the Father.

Don't ya jest love Him?

Paul

From: darwin@atruechurch.info
To: Paul
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: Nuttin much

Thank you for the email.

Which "Him" are you talking about? Him who kills people and sends them to hell (Luke 12:4-5)? Him who has predestined most people (Matthew 7:13-14) to eternal torment before they were even born (Romans 9:11-23)? Him who is two men and seven Spirits (John 8:17-18; Revelation 1:4)? Him who hates and mocks the wicked (Psalm 5:5; Proverbs 1:25-26)? Him who kills even babies (Hosea 9:16)? Him who sends lies so that people will be deceived and destroyed forever (2 Chronicles 18:18-22; 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12)? Him who makes it so some people can't believe and be saved (John 12:37-40)? Him who causes all things, even sin (Isaiah 63:17; Romans 11:36)?

Yes, I love Him with all my heart, with all my soul, with all my mind, and with all my strength (Mark 12:30), and I am afraid of Him (Psalm 119:120), and you should be too (Job 28:28; Proverbs 9:10).

[The rest of the "Tony emails" not posted here were sent to Darren (because he requested them), and this was his response.]

From: Darren
To: darwin@atruechurch.info
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 2:27 PM

Hello :-)

The "Tony" emails were an eye-opener, that's for sure! There were so many links to forums etc. Most of the forum accusations were "anonymous", and quite awful. I can't believe the allegations and accusations, as they come from cowards and liars.

Here's a quote from Tony, which needs some clarification:

"Matt - remember when the Dept of Child and Family services was looking into your family for abuse,and that because you had guns in your home, they were afraid to come in?"

What happened? Was someone being spiteful to Matt?

Bye

Darren :-)

From: darwin@atruechurch.info
To: Darren
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 2:46 PM

This is just another lie with no substance. Matt has never had a visit from anyone from the "Dept of Child and Family services," and he nor we are aware of anyone ever being afraid to enter into his home (except for maybe because of his big dog).

About 2 years ago they had a nurse from the Heath Dept. (not the Dept of Child and Family services) come out because of concern over the possibility of Tuberculosis in one of their children (which turned out to be negative, i.e. no TB). This was a very cordial visit and there was no concern except the concern of the TB.

People lie about us like crazy, as the boards exemplify, just as they lied about Christ (Matthew 11:19; John 10:20; etc.). They can't prove us wrong Biblically, so they slander us; because they hate God and His truth (Matthew 5:11-12).